Much Ado About Interns

by Mike Dang and Logan Sachon

Logan: We talk a lot about unpaid interns, but I’m not sure we’ve talked about our own unpaid interns. The ones we don’t have that we maybe could have. Maybe should have? I have … several interviews recorded on my phone that I need to transcribe. It sure would be nice to have someone do that for me. You know, “BUT.”

Mike: Yeah, no, if we wanted an intern we could get one. There is always some young person out there who wants to get some experience/something to put on her resume. But I don’t want an unpaid intern. I would feel guilty having an unpaid intern.

Logan: Yeah I would, too, but the thing is Mike … I was an unpaid intern. Many times! Several times! I have transcribed other people’s interviews! So many times! And I know that’s maybe not a great reason (“I did it, and you have to, too”) but maybe it is, actually?

Did I ever tell you how I “met” Choire? He tweeted late at night that he had an interview the next day and didn’t know much about the person he was interviewing and joked about needing an intern, and I emailed him and was like, “I know you’re joking, but I will actually research this person for you.” And I did. And then when he launched The Awl, I’d like to think he was more forgiving of my, “Um, I’d like to write something for you BUT WHAT?” emails (don’t write those emails), and LOOK AT US NOW. So I think of that sometimes. What if you and I become massively successful and we’ve kept people from working for us for free way back when?

Mike: Okay, that makes no sense to me, and haha, yes, I recall that story. And look at you — you were a young go-getter! I think that’s different than us posting a notice about needing an unpaid intern, then sorting through emails, and then choosing someone who sounds nice enough. You went out of your way and showed some initiative! Okay, now I’m afraid we may get people who read this and are like, “OH REALLY?” But if someone wants to transcribe your interviews, and you want someone to transcribe your interviews, well.

Logan: My mom said she would, but I don’t know if I want my mom to hear my interviews. I think she’ll criticize how often I say “like” (amazingly, I edit out a lot of the “likes” and only leave the ones that, like, REALLY ADD SOMETHING). I also think she’d be disappointed with how often I say “fuck.”

Mike: Your mom is also a go-getter! One day she’ll have her own website. Also it’d be kind of funny to have your mom be your intern.

Logan: Okay, so I think you’re right in that I’m hoping someone out there will be like LOGAN I AM LITERALLY SITTING ON MY HANDS DOING ZERO THINGS PLEASE LET ME HELP YOU. But: Is it WRONG to take their free labor? We’re letting people write for us for free? That still feels kind of icky, but not AS ICKY?

Mike: So, for the record, for anyone who wants to do reporting, we’ll figure out a way to pay for that kind of work. But yes, a lot of people send in personal essays, and do it for free. But: We don’t solicit those — people send in stuff to us on their own volition. I guess the difference to me is, well, if someone is a go-getter and says, “Hey, I’m interested in doing this!” — whether that’s you offering to do research for Choire, or someone deciding to write an essay and get it published — that feels different than us actively posting a thing saying, “We are looking for someone to help with some tasks, but the caveat is that it is unpaid.” So you and I have written for free for a bunch of places on our own volition before, right? And we were happy to do that for whatever reasons — creative or otherwise. But it’s different when someone is actively asking me to do something for free.

Logan: Also transcribing is the most terrible task. Just extremely awful. There is really no amount of money I could pay someone that would make me feel like it was worth it, to them. It’s an awful thing.

Mike: So listen, I have been an unpaid intern! And when I was an unpaid intern, I was totally complicit in the fact that I was doing real work for no money — the kind of work that a salaried employee would be doing if I weren’t doing it. And if I had the chance to do it over again, I would probably do it, yeah. Because, totally, those internships were things I put on my grad school application, and on my resume. That experience led me to regular jobs. I got some good references.

But, and this is so important: If you choose to do an unpaid internship you better be getting something out of it. I never did an unpaid internship where I didn’t believe I was getting something valuable. Transcription work is so tedious — it’s busy work, and it doesn’t really provide value to an intern. The best internships provide mentorship and valuable work experience. I’m not actually sure what else an intern would do for us. I mean I could think of some more things, but those things really add up into a position that should probably be paid? My dream, actually, is to one day be able to pay someone to be my part-time assistant — someone who could keep a running schedule for me, prioritize my correspondence, remind me to eat lunch. Someone who could be my fixer if I ever got caught up in a scandal. Okay, that last part is fake and a TV show.

Logan: Omg, fixers are real and way above our pay grades. In conclusion, we could probably get some people to do some stuff for us for free, but we don’t want to, really. Or you don’t want to. Even though I kind of do. Sort of.

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